David ([info]nous_corpus) wrote,
@ 2007-06-06 00:21:00
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Iraq and humiliation
I was reading Thucydides, "The Peloponnesian War," and came across a striking passage. At this point, the Athenians have the advantage over the Spartans, by virtue of their victory at Pylos and encirclement of Spartan helots stationed on Sphacteria. The Spartans plea for peace, suggesting that at this point in the war they can each leave with some semblance dignity. They suggest that, even if the Athenians press their advantage and extract a more favorable peace, a settlement that is the result of humiliation will just lead to resentment, backlash, and eventually another conflict.

When we invaded Iraq, we steamrolled the Iraqi army. Many Americans thought it was hilarious, and took great pride in our overwhelming superiority. But the flipside of this is that the Iraqis must have been utterly humiliated. Even if they weren't strict nationalists or completely identify with Saddam's regime, it must have been emasculating for them to be defeated so effortlessly and yet so comprehensively.

In the aftermath, the US attempted to give them a state, to award them a democracy. But many Iraqis likely don't want to be handed anything by the Americans, as a simple point of pride. They want to win the state, to earn it for themselves as an assertion of autonomy. This, in turn, may have helped fuel the reassertion of ethnic identities and sectarian fighting.

We should have found some face-saving way for the Iraqi people to emerge from the rubble. But macho-man Bush, of course wouldn't dream of such a thing. Well asshole, look where it got you.


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[info]stylishbastard
2007-06-06 06:23 pm UTC (link)
Dude..don't you think that's kindof simplistic? You really think there were people yearning for democracy who decided to start blowing up markets just because they had democracy HANDED to them? Really?

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[info]nous_corpus
2007-06-07 01:53 am UTC (link)
Well, like any reductive analysis of an issue as complex as the Iraq clusterfuck, it's bound to be a bit simplistic. That said, perhaps I can expand a bit more, because I think there are three distinct points wrapped up here.

First, in the politics of identity, our crushing the Iraqi forces may have led to greater sectarian identification, because it would be far less humiliating than identifying as Iraqi. Second, people that had already harbored sectarian resentment may have had been pushed even farther towards the breaking point where one would need to be to become a suicide bomber. Third, the new state, by calling itself Iraq, struggles for legitimacy because people still mentally catagorize it with Hussein's Iraq that was demolished in such a humiliating way by the US.

Also, I don't claim that this is the whole story, by any means. I just thought that it was a new way (at least for me) to analyze the situation, one that I hadn't seen the pundits in the US consider yet.

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[info]stylishbastard
2007-06-07 01:57 am UTC (link)
Yeah they totally should have renamed Iraq something cool.
'Iraq' sounds a bit like a bad cough.

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